[sevenlives]

We were talking on livestream today, and grimm made a great point...taric is high to top tier with the right team comp, and mediocre without. also, I was reading the forums yesterday, and l0cust was saying something about how this is the home of competitive LoL (at least i think that was the point he was making...it was a really long post), and that he was done with his tier list. As such, I was hoping we could get something set up here that talks about general tiers, and also champs that have high variability based on comp (assuming this is support, aoe, and tank), meaning there may be multiple ways to list it.

*edited by dan *- Really i want this to queue dodge effectively * (meant as a joke)*, but also to know who I should be trying to really learn.

[sevenlives]

From grimm today:

MrGrimm999: 1st tier: jax, alstar, sivir, fiddlesticks, corki, tf, soraka (under certain conditions)

MrGrimm999: 2nd tier: ashe, rammus, nidalee, nasus, warwick, twitch, taric, annie

MrGrimm999: 3rd tier: amumu, tristana, gankplank, kayle, shaco, malphite, anivia, ryze

and from Elementz (chat got cleared so paraphrasing) you're dumb if you don't think annie is top tier.

and go.

[sevenlives]

MrGrimm999: ok
MrGrimm999: so i saw 2 questions
MrGrimm999: first, why is soraka top tier
MrGrimm999: i agree she probably isnt, this is why I put under certain conditions
MrGrimm999: but basically because exe calling nerf happened
MrGrimm999: and this game is all about aoe damage
MrGrimm999: her ult and heal soft counter many lineups
MrGrimm999: and because this game is gay and only has blind pick
MrGrimm999: soraka is a really good choice
MrGrimm999: to aoe ult to counter lots of aoe teams
MrGrimm999: but in a pure draft in tournament conditions, under the right lineup
MrGrimm999: she will still be played
MrGrimm999: we all saw in the finals of solomid tournament
MrGrimm999: soraka won every game
MrGrimm999: whether she was on AoN's team, or Phreak's Team
MrGrimm999: that should proove she is up there


MrGrimm999: why is alistar top tier
MrGrimm999: this if for all your nubs
MrGrimm999: im going to be very very brief
MrGrimm999: because if you dont think ali is top tier, you are mentally challenged
MrGrimm999: but basically he needs no money
MrGrimm999: to be a super good tank, that can spam disable
MrGrimm999: and he can aoe heal



MrGrimm999: why is warwick 2nd tier
MrGrimm999: so this is a lot of experience and preference talking
MrGrimm999: but controlling the jungle is really really really important in this game
MrGrimm999: not only because you get the jungle buffs and dragon gold/xp
MrGrimm999: but there is something a lot of people forget
MrGrimm999: because you kill the mob, your team knows when it respawns
MrGrimm999: this is a HUGE advantage
MrGrimm999: that a lot of people dont realise in serious play
MrGrimm999: since we know that dragon is 6 minute spawn, and baron is 7 or whatever
MrGrimm999: if you have a warick going around killing dragon
MrGrimm999: you can have your entire team next to dragon 30 seconds before it spawns
MrGrimm999: the other team will try to stop you of course, but they will be not in perfect position
MrGrimm999: this can lead to a won team fight, and a won dragon
MrGrimm999: that is worth its weight in gold
MrGrimm999: so much is about team positioning
MrGrimm999: and having the extra knowledge of when the jungle is respawning makes warwick very strong
MrGrimm999: in addition to someone getting extra xp because he is jungling
MrGrimm999: and he can suicide to shut down a carry in a team fight
MrGrimm999: so yes, I think he is 2nd tier
MrGrimm999: dont forget, he can buff a teams attack speed too
MrGrimm999: like a mini sivir ult


MrGrimm999: why is rammus above malphite
MrGrimm999: i have played both characters a lot
MrGrimm999: and there are two things that rammus has better than malhpite
MrGrimm999: 1, he has an actual tanking ability
MrGrimm999: shell is like a mini alstar ult
MrGrimm999: and its up virtually all the time
MrGrimm999: malphite really isnt a pure tank
MrGrimm999: and he can be focused and killed quite easily
MrGrimm999: especially since really the only reason malphite is so good is because of his ult
MrGrimm999: and if his ult is just nubbed up slightly
MrGrimm999: he will be put in bad position and killed
MrGrimm999: and screwing his team over
MrGrimm999: whereas rammus's ult is guarenteed to do good damage in team fights
MrGrimm999: and he can taunt a carry virtually all the time with flash
MrGrimm999: so because rammus is slightly more reliable, and more importantly, a pure tank, I think he is better than malphite
MrGrimm999: and in my experience, rammus has done better, especially since malphite has been nerfed

[IR Chase]

sevenlives, on 22 March 2010 - 08:09 PM, said:

We were talking on livestream today, and grimm made a great point...taric is high to top tier with the right team comp, and mediocre without. also, I was reading the forums yesterday, and l0cust was saying something about how this is the home of competitive LoL (at least i think that was the point he was making...it was a really long post), and that he was done with his tier list. As such, I was hoping we could get something set up here that talks about general tiers, and also champs that have high variability based on comp (assuming this is support, aoe, and tank), meaning there may be multiple ways to list it.

Really i want this to queue dodge effectively, but also to know who I should be trying to really learn.

I must say i agree with the tier list for the most part, due to the variability of usefullness of many hero's. Thanks for this post and please continue in this vein, it's always good to see other people's views on top tier characters and compare them to my personal preferances. I think Taric is currently my most played champ. I happen to use zilean an aweful lot tho, and noticed that he isn't in this list. I think that is probably correct though, as his usefulness is directly tied to his team. I happen to think he is alot like Taric in this respect and would like to get opinions on this matter.

[Skullyhead]

I always believed that there is no such thing as a tier list in these kind of games. Usually, tier lists are made from fighting games. In fighting games, every character has the same objective: to do as much damage to the other opponent while having the possibility to stay alive yourself. The character who can do both the best, is top tier.

In LoL, every character has his/her own job. You can't compare Soraka with Jax or Sivir with Taric. You could make a tier list on for example, pushers, healers, tanks, dps etc. I mean, what does it say, tier rankings in LoL. If we look at that tier that is posted:

Quote

MrGrimm999: 1st tier: jax, alstar, sivir, fiddlesticks, corki, tf, soraka (under certain conditions)
MrGrimm999: 2nd tier: ashe, rammus, nidalee, nasus, warwick, twitch, taric, annie

So, the best team currently is: jax, alstar, sivir, fiddlesticks, corki or replace any champion with tf or soraka?

There is no need to discuss tier lists in LoL, because it all depends on to much things.

[Luara Vanamo]

ashe better than trist ? lol nub list

[sevenlives]

Grimm from livestream: janna ranked tier 2 or 3 according to grim, due to knock ups. merc treads dont reduce knock ups, so its a whole team stun not reduced by treads. low cooldown, easy to hit, ult knockback + heal, and shield is good to harass and lane, and can be put on carries. She is strong support he says she is underrated.

jax/allstar (fuck the i, thats what he said) strongest two heroes.

[Doomsday]

I'm guessing the characters not listed are considered lesser to the ones listed?

Like Sion isn't listed because the tanks in the list are superior?

[whompz]

Missing champs from the tier list???

[captivate]

I agree with Ashe's tier positioning. She's often very underrated, I find.

With a constant 35% slow bearing down on enemy champs, AOE slow, and a long duration stun that can occur less than once a minute? That's nothing to laugh at. A good Ashe can easily devastate the enemy team during mid phase and give the advantage. Good ashe players are defined by their ability to make their ult count.

[Luara Vanamo]

captivate, on 22 March 2010 - 09:28 PM, said:

I agree with Ashe's tier positioning. She's often very underrated, I find.

With a constant 35% slow bearing down on enemy champs, AOE slow, and a long duration stun that can occur less than once a minute? That's nothing to laugh at. A good Ashe can easily devastate the enemy team during mid phase and give the advantage. Good ashe players are defined by their ability to make their ult count.

or any caster can just insta gip her

[Ocular Spook]

I find it interesting that Twitch never made it to top tier... I've always thought of him as one of the stronger heroes. There's not even one stealth character in the first tier and if I remember right not any in the second either. Also, the leaving out of Teemo (who can mess up melee characters to no end) is definitely odd.

I do have to agree with whoever said it though... tier lists are kinda insane considering there are so many different things to consider. I've seen Taric go around in games and have like a 12/0/2 or 3 ratio... containing half the kills for the team. It depends on items, situations, player skill... and basically who you get screwed enough to get stuck with with MatchMaking.

I do like the fact that my pretty little Sivir is top tier though... heh.

[daze]

These lists are pretty useless. In a game based so heavily on team comps, there are just three tiers. There are more always viable than never btw.

Always Viable

Sometimes Viable

Never Viable

[yallayalla]

Ocular Spook, on 22 March 2010 - 10:07 PM, said:

Also, the leaving out of Teemo (who can mess up melee characters to no end) is definitely odd.

he said something like: "you can buy wards on other heroes, but you cant buy an ult for teemo"

and blind isnt that good. (range/duration and cleanse) but mostly the range aspect of the spell. if a twitch is in a good position he will never get blinded bcz teemos dead before he is in blind range.
for melee heroes, they just gonna ignore you and be out of range most of the time also.

[sevenlives]

i played jax today based on this recomendation...holy god, it was like snorting cocaine for the first time. I had been missing out...I thought I had been enjoying LoL, but dear god, now I know, now I know.

[Ocular Spook]

Jax, especially if fed, can be pretty insane no doubt. I'm definitely going to have to give Fiddle a try... people are raving about him in general.

[smokeD]

So yea is Jax getting nerfed yet?

[Unifizz]

Luara Vanamo, on 22 March 2010 - 08:35 PM, said:

ashe better than trist ? lol nub list

I'm sorry, but you sir, are an idiot.

[captivate]

Luara Vanamo, on 22 March 2010 - 09:39 PM, said:

or any caster can just insta gip her

It's all about positioning and banshees.

[Nanners]

Ocular Spook, on 22 March 2010 - 10:07 PM, said:

Teemo (who can mess up melee characters to no end) is definitely odd.

Heres my question. What makes Teemo's blind anymore 'anti-melee' than any one person's stun? Really? What does blind do that stun doesn't?

Also get wards and you have Teemo's map presence in a nut shell.