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Help me Learn to Counter Pick top.


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#1 Austin

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:49 PM

Okay, so I plan on running a bunch of solo top champs and was wondering if you guys could tell me what champs counter what and what other champs I might need to play.

My list is as follows

Renekton
Singed
Riven
Irelia
Kennen
Teemo
Nasus
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#2 Umashi

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:07 AM

Renekton is countered by Nidalee and Teemo
Singed is countered by Riven, Skarner, WW, Etc (anyone with more sustain/harass/better early game)
Riven is countered by Tryndamere and Teemo
Irelia is countered by... what isn't irelia countered by?
Kennen... he counters most solo top, just think of it like mid kennen.
Teemo counters everybody and cannot be countered by your standard solo top, have to send something odd against him.
Nasus is countered by everybody early and counters everybody late.
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#3 TheOneSkades

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:10 AM

Garen counters Singed and Nasus big time.
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#4 Austin

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:19 AM

I plan on running Teemo when they pick Trynd or something like that.

Idk when to run Irelia, lately she feels underwhelming and never does that great in lane, the ebst you can hope for with her is to get every farm.

I will run renekton against Singed/Nasus or anyone else who tries to do a farm fest.

I will run Nasus against singed and Cho only.

I will run Riven against certain champs like Nasus and yorick when my team needs more AD

I don't have any clue when to run Kennen

I just need to know what champs counter what grr.
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#5 Austin

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:45 PM

still need help
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#6 Alucardzs

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 01:53 AM

Google league of legends counter spread sheet
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#7 Alucardzs

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 02:32 AM

https://docs.google....many=true#gid=0
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#8 Austin

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 04:32 AM

some of the counterpicks dont make sense so I assume it is somewhat outdated or atleast partially and also, a lot of it isn't lane specific, it's more about champion counters in team fights.
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#9 Barehand

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 03:01 PM

Garen counters Singed --.


How?

Not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious why this is supposedly so. I have lost to Garen once because I was too confident without boots, but I learned my lesson and didn't lose since. But it's very likely that the Garens just played bad, so how would they have countered me if they were good?

Garen certainly outdamages and outsustains Singed early on, that's a given. But this is pretty much true for every champion out there - very few can trade with Garen and win until some items and levels. Ranged farmers are obviously decent, but that excludes most typical solo top choices.

I played against Garen as Singed yesterday. I started Doran's Shield because I was nervous and uncertain. Despite losing half my health, I managed to keep up in creeps. When I got some gold, I recalled for mana crystal and potions/wards, and then I could start farming with Q. I got two kills during a 3v3 gank, Garen got one shortly thereafter (from our jungler, IIRC). He wasn't far behind, but I had half-a-level advantage or something, and once I got Catalyst (+Doran's Shield + Boots) there was nothing he could do to stop me from farming.

Against Garen, you need armor, health regen and movement speed to survive. That's not hard to pick up with an early teleport. Once you have some mana, farming also becomes doable. So I have yet to learn how Garen counters Singed any harder than he "counters" your average bruiser early game.
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#10 brainof7

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 05:23 AM

How?

Not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious why this is supposedly so. I have lost to Garen once because I was too confident without boots, but I learned my lesson and didn't lose since. But it's very likely that the Garens just played bad, so how would they have countered me if they were good?

Garen certainly outdamages and outsustains Singed early on, that's a given. But this is pretty much true for every champion out there - very few can trade with Garen and win until some items and levels. Ranged farmers are obviously decent, but that excludes most typical solo top choices.

I played against Garen as Singed yesterday. I started Doran's Shield because I was nervous and uncertain. Despite losing half my health, I managed to keep up in creeps. When I got some gold, I recalled for mana crystal and potions/wards, and then I could start farming with Q. I got two kills during a 3v3 gank, Garen got one shortly thereafter (from our jungler, IIRC). He wasn't far behind, but I had half-a-level advantage or something, and once I got Catalyst (+Doran's Shield + Boots) there was nothing he could do to stop me from farming.

Against Garen, you need armor, health regen and movement speed to survive. That's not hard to pick up with an early teleport. Once you have some mana, farming also becomes doable. So I have yet to learn how Garen counters Singed any harder than he "counters" your average bruiser early game.


The general metagame of top is that there are people who are good early, and people who are squishy early. For example, Irelia loses to renekton and rumble because they have an easy time harassing her early when she walks up to get creeps and they have a good early game, and Irelia is pretty squishy early game. The squishy heroes tend to be better late game, but they need to pick against the other laner appropriately. Kennen has a pretty good early game, but Irelia can beat that since he depends on skillshots in a line.

As to why garen beats singed, singed is SUPER squishy for a while, until he gets catalyst at least. Garen has a fantastic early game where he does lots of damage and should be able to zone singed cause 1 q > e combo by garen is more than half his health bar.
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#11 Otukt

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:37 AM

Irelia is countered by... what isn't irelia countered by?


You kidding? Irelia is damn strong in lane.
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#12 Soulouri

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:45 PM

Renekton is countered by Nidalee and Teemo
Singed is countered by Riven, Skarner, WW, Etc (anyone with more sustain/harass/better early game)
Irelia is countered by... what isn't irelia countered by?
Kennen... he counters most solo top, just think of it like mid kennen.
Nasus is countered by everybody early and counters everybody late.


Ok removed the ones I agree with, left the ones I'm not so sure about :)

Teemo doesnt do so well against Renekton, he can be annoying but Ren's harass isn't so reliant on being able to auto attack, it's really not that difficult to land the stun if you pay attention to when Teemo fires his blinding dart, and his Q and E work fine always. Teemo is a decent pick but I wouldn't say he's a 'counter' because it's not like he shuts renekton down.

WW doesn't counter Singed simply because Singed pushes so hard. WW does ok pre-level 6 but post level 6 Singed can just push all day long and there isn't much WW can do about it. Eventually vs a good Singed, WW is going to be losing his towers, and other lanes are going to need to go and back him up to stop him losing more.

A good Irelia is good vs almost anything so I don't get what you mean about her. I can't think of anything that shuts her down super hard since she can farm so well even under her own tower.

I don't think Kennen counters 'most' solo top, I think he counters 'some' solo top. I know that's a little picky on the wording, but lots of solo tops can get in and win an exchange with Kennen.

I guess this comment on Nasus is relatively true. Although it's the opposite vs most tanky top laners, like Cho or Singed. Nasus isn't really countered at all by these guys, and late game Nasus doesnt counter them (on the contrary, a good Singed will be a big pain in the ass for a Nasus player trying to kill a squishy).
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#13 Austin

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:05 AM

Ok removed the ones I agree with, left the ones I'm not so sure about :)

Teemo doesnt do so well against Renekton, he can be annoying but Ren's harass isn't so reliant on being able to auto attack, it's really not that difficult to land the stun if you pay attention to when Teemo fires his blinding dart, and his Q and E work fine always. Teemo is a decent pick but I wouldn't say he's a 'counter' because it's not like he shuts renekton down.

WW doesn't counter Singed simply because Singed pushes so hard. WW does ok pre-level 6 but post level 6 Singed can just push all day long and there isn't much WW can do about it. Eventually vs a good Singed, WW is going to be losing his towers, and other lanes are going to need to go and back him up to stop him losing more.

A good Irelia is good vs almost anything so I don't get what you mean about her. I can't think of anything that shuts her down super hard since she can farm so well even under her own tower.

I don't think Kennen counters 'most' solo top, I think he counters 'some' solo top. I know that's a little picky on the wording, but lots of solo tops can get in and win an exchange with Kennen.

I guess this comment on Nasus is relatively true. Although it's the opposite vs most tanky top laners, like Cho or Singed. Nasus isn't really countered at all by these guys, and late game Nasus doesnt counter them (on the contrary, a good Singed will be a big pain in the ass for a Nasus player trying to kill a squishy).

can you be more specific, like who is singed a good choice against and who does kennen beat?
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#14 EvilASD

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:36 AM

Singed is good against Nasus. Noone else i can think of really, unless u have like Amumu top or something silly. Midgame however, u have little counters, then lategame u have a few counters.
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#15 Lachrymose

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:01 AM

Trundle counters Yorick
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#16 Shadow-twin

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:18 AM

Most counters have been mentioned, however I feel like Trundle is a really good AD Counter, he destroys Riven and such... Ehhh Akali gets wrecked by Garen by default, but you can own Garen if you get tons of early ganks or really outplay him... Then Singed... Ahhh Singed you stupid faggot, people haven't mentioned his best counter: Cassiopeia, everytime he wants to go farm or poision you can hit him with Q and 2-3 E's, denying him farm completly (All Singed will naturally think they're stronk early and dive your wave to take 500 dmg pretty fast.
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#17 Soulouri

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 02:24 PM

Cassiopeia is a decent counter to Singed until he builds ROA.

The hands down best counter to Singed i've ever seen is Brand, the guy wrecks him all game long and Singed cant even go for a little counter harass with flip/poison because he just gets stunned.

Singed is good against Nasus


I have to disagree with this because Singed cant do much to Nasus except push the tower, which leaves Nasus free farming his Q. Nasus has enough life steal that with the minion nerf damage Nasus can just tank them out of his tower range all day long and farm up his Q and Singed doesn't really do enough damage to stop that.
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#18 Ginko

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 02:44 PM

Akali was a good counter vs Singed.. dunno after the nerfs?

Cho can counter him..but cant kill him. It just becomes a farm fest.
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#19 FixedAtZero

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 04:11 PM

Singed hard countered by tryndamere.

Irelia counter teemo ( trust me)
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#20 Barehand

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:32 PM

I have to disagree with this because Singed cant do much to Nasus except push the tower, which leaves Nasus free farming his Q. Nasus has enough life steal that with the minion nerf damage Nasus can just tank them out of his tower range all day long and farm up his Q and Singed doesn't really do enough damage to stop that.


Dunno about this. If he tanks the minion wave, can't you just fling him into your poison and hit him while the minions get eaten? If he lets the creeps come into tower range, he will lose Q-lasthits. If he can farm under tower he won't lose much gold, but he simply doesn't have the cooldown to get all the creeps with Q. And if he's not rushing CDR, he will be missing Q-hits for quite a while.

Playing Singed like this is extremely dependant on good warding and/or a bad jungler on their part. If they have Nocturne, Rammus (who'll flash+powerball from behind the tower easily) or Fiddle (if you're purple) you probably don't want to be so overextended.
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