[EU Night]

Nautilus

[vintage party]

inb4 nautilus counters everything

[Andree]

 vintage party, on 03 March 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

inb4 nautilus counters everything

but.. does nautilus counter nautilus?

[vintage party]

 Andree, on 03 March 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

but.. does nautilus counter nautilus?

divide by 0. does not compute. . . .

[Tetsuo]

I played against ap nautilus recently. That shit was fucking strong. Rylais+rod of ages and you are pretty tanky already and you deal tons of dämitsch.

[Valkasha]

fiora gets countered by stalling, if her E times out she will be weak for a couple of secs which is where you strike, you have to be able to live through two E bursts (her ult gives her time to recharge) also don't let her get away, she doesn't have an escape but if you let her walk away she will kill a jungle camp and come back for the ace. Oh and armor, armor is good.

Some obvious counters:
any form of cc but that doesnt say much since anyone gets countered by cc
kiting champs, ashe,mundo,shyvana,singed do well against her because they can kite when her E is up whilst still doing damage, then go in for the kill when it's down. gangplank is not a counter because she can block your parrley with W.
stall champs, tryndamere,zilean,kayle,yorick can all last longer then her or make teammates last longer
grouping, she excels at 1v1, sure she has a multi target ult but thats one trick and after that she is pure 1v1 oriented.
do not try to fight her with champs like fiddle,katarina,kennen she will fuck you up with her ulti as it makes her immune to yours.
dots/debuffs still hurt her during her ulti so don't be afraid to ignite in order to reduce life regen

[Dolphin Trainer]

Imo, Volibear he beats everything

[Endrance]

She seriously gets hard countered by Akali, because Akali's trade damage is only high if she can get into melee range. And that's exactly what Fiora is forced to do. Shroud also counters Fiora's ultimate unless she gets an Oracle or several pink wards, since Fiora's R is target based and if it cannot find a target (due to invisibility for example) it will just stop.

[Valkasha]

I disagree their damage is pretty on par but fioras life regen is much higher, her shrouds a good stalling ability but when theres minions nearby fiora will just use the opportunity to get some health back or just wait out the duration. It can be very well timed though, when fiora is low and uses E, shroud and she'll be dead. However I doubt akali can beat her 1v1 when both are full health and have similar gold worth of items.

[iTango Tom]

I seem to piss on fioras with teemo?

its all about learning when she puts her block on, if she goes in for you, make sure u hit a blinding dart.

punish her with a dart when she last hits to take her sustain out.

Rush a wriggles and zerker boots, or a malady and ninja tabi.

(imo anyways, probs wrong and against bad fioras)

[Dolphin Trainer]

Poppy's devastating blow goes past Fiora's parry by the way. Saw a Fiora rage over that the other day

[Endrance]

 Valkasha, on 04 March 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

I disagree their damage is pretty on par but fioras life regen is much higher, her shrouds a good stalling ability but when theres minions nearby fiora will just use the opportunity to get some health back or just wait out the duration. It can be very well timed though, when fiora is low and uses E, shroud and she'll be dead. However I doubt akali can beat her 1v1 when both are full health and have similar gold worth of items.

You disagree alot when you actually just doubt things theoretically everytime. I've just played 10 games against another high Elo friend. Five times me Akali, five times him after I lost one game as Fiora against an Akali that clearly wasn't a better player than I was. Akali always won every of those games, even the two games where we just farmed for the first core Item (I got Wits End to counter her) without attacking each other. And my Akali is far better than his. That's how you easily find counterpicks within a very short timeframe by the way.
Akali can easily stack Q's and evade every attempt Fiora makes to trade with a Shroud if she wants to. Akali can also bait Parry as soon as she get's R and just destroy her afterwards. Fiora also cannot flee against Akali ever, when Akali can just W and walk away, since Fiora has no MS instant steroid/gap closer without attacking first other than her low range Q, which does next to no damage and allows her to maybe get in 2 autos, which is only enough to finish a 10-20% HP guy off. Akali can easily deal 50% of Fiora's max HP with 2 R combos if she's running and Flash would not help (R range > Flash range).

Even theoretically though Akali beats Fiora easily, because Akali counters everything that cannot Stun/Silence her and doesn't have AoE/non-target skillshots for Shroud. Fiora is like the epitome of target based champions that gets it's ultimate destroyed by a regular skill. Even Tryndamere has more AoE.

Try it yourself against a player your level if you don't believe it.

 Dolphin Trainer, on 04 March 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

Poppy's devastating blow goes past Fiora's parry by the way. Saw a Fiora rage over that the other day

Plus Poppy can go 90+ Armor on level 1 with Runes. Sounds like another counter. May try that out.

[Valkasha]

how can I derive from your previous post that you tested this thoroughly..I'm speaking from soloque experience where I faced some akalis and while I didn't win the lanes I didn't lose badly either, and because later in teamfights I would beat the akali because she couldn't focus me with my team there, akali is an even worse teamfiighter then fiora when not out of controll fed, shes kind of the clean up crew after most of the fight is done so unless her team would manage to get me I was going to be a stronger asset during and after the fight. I won that game through a baron fight eventually and my full build kind of wrecked miss akali.
imo a counter or opness isn't decided by laning alone, you have to look at the bigger picture.
also don't forget an oracles or pink ward can surprise/counter akali pretty badly, stealth isn't very reliable

[Endrance]

 Valkasha, on 04 March 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

how can I derive from your previous post that you tested this thoroughly..

Exactly.

Quote

I'm speaking from soloque experience where I faced some akalis and while I didn't win the lanes I didn't lose badly either, and because later in teamfights I would beat the akali because she couldn't focus me with my team there, akali is an even worse teamfiighter then fiora when not out of controll fed, shes kind of the clean up crew after most of the fight is done so unless her team would manage to get me I was going to be a stronger asset during and after the fight. I won that game through a baron fight eventually and my full build kind of wrecked miss akali.
imo a counter or opness isn't decided by laning alone, you have to look at the bigger picture.
also don't forget an oracles or pink ward can surprise/counter akali pretty badly, stealth isn't very reliable

I was just talking about lane counters, which I probably forgot to add (it's a given to me). I'm not talking about teamfight counters or countercomps, because that stuff is almost completely absent in solo queue games. Testing things like those is also impossible without trying it in tournament level scrims and I currently have no option to do that.

Lane counters are much more important in any case though, because snowballing a lane by denying CS (or even getting multiple kills) pretty much makes the opposing laner useless, unless he's able to stall/free farm after feeding a kill due to higher range (like Morde, Gragas and Galio can in some cases for example).

[Valkasha]

uhh my experience is there's more fighting in solo que then in tournament play, where they mostly avoid eachother untill one team forces baron after like 20 minutes.. Plenty of time to test teamfight play in solo que. tournament play is also totaly diffrent from what were talking about here I believe, just your average lol match.

[Endrance]

Teamfights in solo queue aren't organized and timed, they're mostly based on the overall advantage in strength/gold and random factors in terms of initiating and reactions to that - one guy reacting a second too late or focusing the wrong target can make and break the fight (but basically on who won the most lanes). It's not about how much teamfighting there is, but how representative it is. And honestly, 5v5 fights in solo queue are insanely random when teams are even.

[Andree]

Pretty sure Yorick can poopoo on Fiora as well.

Use ghoul -> she parries ghoul autoattack -> trololol.

[Valkasha]

 Endrance, on 04 March 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

Teamfights in solo queue aren't organized and timed, they're mostly based on the overall advantage in strength/gold and random factors in terms of initiating and reactions to that - one guy reacting a second too late or focusing the wrong target can make and break the fight (but basically on who won the most lanes). It's not about how much teamfighting there is, but how representative it is. And honestly, 5v5 fights in solo queue are insanely random when teams are even.

Just because teamfights are more random (which i prefer, makes things less stale) that doesn't mean the performance of certain champions in random situations isn't representative for them.. I'd say the fact that they are more random means the skills of a champion are much better put to the test. A test is supposed to be unknown to the one taking it or there is no point to it.

[TheLargeOne]

 Andree, on 04 March 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Pretty sure Yorick can poopoo on Fiora as well.

Use ghoul -> she parries ghoul autoattack -> trololol.

So. Here is my story:
-After Fiora patch-

6 Games in a row: FIORA-BTICH

Oh lookie, I have 6.3k ip now.

-Read post-
-Buys Yorick-

7th game: Nasus Top.





...REAL.

[TheLargeOne]

All of Reddit knows this by now, but this is just F.Y.I.


Jax is a top counter to Fiora (At the moment) because hit E (or his 'Godmode Dodge') can dodge

Fiora's ultimate, ENTIRELY.



That takes a good chunk of her damage output.
What really sucks is that since she has two steroids that empower her auto-attacks, she can't do shit against a Jax.

BUT, she can (needs to be confirmed) Riposte (her W) Jax's Empower.



If someone can confirm her Riposte with Jax's Empower, we can determine if Jax > Fiora. 100% or 75%



Side note: They are both great combat duelists (in the Lore, anyway), so it's cool if they can counter each other (but Jax > Fiora atm.)