[Dominus Ensis]

Big Skler, on 24 January 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

Now stop being an idiot and remove your head from your ass. You were incorrect, admit it and become a better person because of it. It's important to be humble, lest you learn nothing from your own mistakes.

Same could be said to you. But who's to say who's right?

[Valkasha]

Big Skler, on 24 January 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

LolKing is legit (and a good way to gain Elo), but calling me on the "bullshit" of saying borders mean fuck all when I said "I'm sure there are silvers/bronzes/no borders who are better than you" means precisely dick. Congratulations, you know what statistics are (I bet plats are generally better than golds too!). Now stop being an idiot and remove your head from your ass. You were incorrect, admit it and become a better person because of it. It's important to be humble, lest you learn nothing from your own mistakes.

Sorry but, I'm incorrect about what exactly? I think I've said multiple times that I agree there's exceptions to the rule... I can't be humble when I have no idea why you're saying I'm wrong after saying I'm right..
You talk about being humble and yet you just called me an idiot.. Maybe if you didn't keep twisting your words I could understand you but you're arguing like a ten year old.

[Panda Rider]

Dominus Ensis, on 24 January 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

Same could be said to you. But who's to say who's right?

Agreed . I am, he's wrong!

[etree]

I decided I should try to keep up with the forums again and when I got to this thread... Maybe it wasn't the best idea.

Anywho. From what I can tell from personal experience as well as what my friends tell me after playing ranked, is that the average gold player is better than the average silver player. What a surprise, so far borders have proved to be a semi-reliable way of rating players from the loading screen of a match.

Even so, here's my logic behind borders:
Should people really be judging based off a border? Not really. Everyone has their ups and downs in games. Sometimes a player will outperform another simply because one of them is on a tilt. Or maybe they're more familiar with a role and outplay someone who's been placed in a position they're uncomfortable with.

Is it still something you can use to help determine the possible skill level of your team? Yeah. It's not mid-way into Season 3 yet. The average person can only improve so much in a given time frame, especially with all the changes that have been made over the last few months. Hopefully in your games players are also more considerate in letting players take the role they are most comfortable with if they are able to take on another role rather than just going "HURR DURR PICK ORDER. HURR DURR MID. TOP. BOT OR FEED" or whatever stupid shit that might be said (I surprisingly didn't have this problem very often last season).

Don't get me wrong. Players can improve but what separates players is whether or not they possess a good game sense as well as mechanics. And from what I've seen, most of the players who have borders tend to play at the skill level that they are marked at, with the exception of users who have requested their borders to be removed (Riot only did this for a few people so it's most likely not the case) or those that have been elo boosted.

I've only seen a couple players that have really improved to reach from gold to plat or silver to gold, and even then they were very close to that skill level at the end of S2 so it wasn't a whole ton of improvement being made.

Also:

Quote

It doesn't give me any comfort to see gold borders on my team. I'd rather have a skinned no-border than a default gold. Skins = skill.

Really doesn't come off as sarcasm since you tied it in with what you've been trying to argue.

My first reaction would have been this simply because there are some very stupid people that occasionally find their way here and try to force some ridiculous argument without having an open mind to other valid opinions:

[Big Skler]

Valkasha, on 24 January 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

Sorry but, I'm incorrect about what exactly? I think I've said multiple times that I agree there's exceptions to the rule... I can't be humble when I have no idea why you're saying I'm wrong after saying I'm right..
You talk about being humble and yet you just called me an idiot.. Maybe if you didn't keep twisting your words I could understand you but you're arguing like a ten year old.

You're incorrect in that you set up a strawman instead of actually arguing anything. I said "Golds can be worse than silvers, and Gold wasn't even that hard to get if you really, really cared enough to get it. Borders don't mean anything because of this, it's a bad way to judge skill because only one reason for not having a gold border is 'bad player,' there are plenty of other reasons and gold doesn't even mean somebody is good."

You promptly responded with "You're wrong, but there are exceptions." (which was the entire point of my post, silver doesn't necessarily mean you're worse than gold).

Strawmanning isn't good, it is the sign of a lack of comprehension or intentional ignorance because you want to be right. It is a sign of having one's head up their own ass to the point they can't see what they're arguing against.

The idea that anyone would take skins = skill seriously, regardless of location in the text (it didn't grammatically warrant a new paragraph), is mind-boggling. I figured skins = skill was similar to "tires don exits" in smash brothers. I said it to indicate that borders (at least to gold, the jump to plat and diamond are actually significant and difficult to be carried to) mean fuckall, just like skins. I should not have to explain these sorts of things. I don't have much of a tolerance for people who show a lack of comprehension to the point of not understanding they are using a straw man.

tl;dr: My original position was never "golds are worse than silvers," but "borders are a bad way to indicate skill." You can assume gold players are, on average, better than silver players (though this becomes less true literally every single day), but the two silvers on your team could both be better than the gold player on it, and it's not even that unlikely. Hence borders sucking at being an actual indication of skill.

[Panda Rider]

Big Skler, on 29 January 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

You're incorrect in that you set up a strawman instead of actually arguing anything. I said "Golds can be worse than silvers, and Gold wasn't even that hard to get if you really, really cared enough to get it. Borders don't mean anything because of this, it's a bad way to judge skill because only one reason for not having a gold border is 'bad player,' there are plenty of other reasons and gold doesn't even mean somebody is good."

Y U SO STUPID?!?! wtf dude!

What we all tried to point out to YOU, is that you make statements as if they where facts . . .

You start with "There are some exceptions in the Silver/Gold blablabla . . ." and then you State "Borders don't mean anything" those 2 statements are huge contradictions!
What we are telling you from the start "There are some exceptions in the Silver/Gold blablabla" so 90%+ ARE are the elo they belong!

Big Skler, on 29 January 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

You promptly responded with "You're wrong, but there are exceptions." (which was the entire point of my post, silver doesn't necessarily mean you're worse than gold).

Strawmanning isn't good, it is the sign of a lack of comprehension or intentional ignorance because you want to be right. It is a sign of having one's head up their own ass to the point they can't see what they're arguing against.

If I read the following . . .

Big Skler, on 23 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Silver club is terrible though, but I think gold club is even worse.

. . . I don't know what to think. You state a lot of things and even contradict yourself a few times. And if someone tries to point it out to you, you just respond that you never wrote such thing or never meant it like that. But if multiple people agree on this and you'r the only one who doesn't, chances are the bad communication is on your end.

Big Skler, on 29 January 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

The idea that anyone would take skins = skill seriously, regardless of location in the text (it didn't grammatically warrant a new paragraph), is mind-boggling. I figured skins = skill was similar to "tires don exits" in smash brothers. I said it to indicate that borders (at least to gold, the jump to plat and diamond are actually significant and difficult to be carried to) mean fuckall, just like skins. I should not have to explain these sorts of things. I don't have much of a tolerance for people who show a lack of comprehension to the point of not understanding they are using a straw man.

tl;dr: My original position was never "golds are worse than silvers," but "borders are a bad way to indicate skill." You can assume gold players are, on average, better than silver players (though this becomes less true literally every single day), but the two silvers on your team could both be better than the gold player on it, and it's not even that unlikely. Hence borders sucking at being an actual indication of skill.

same thing . . . you wrote in one of your first post that gold club is worse then silver?

Big Skler, on 23 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Sounds like you just want to think you're good because of your gold border.Don't be stupid and think your border makes you special.

Silver club is terrible though, but I think gold club is even worse.

TL;DR you state "borders are a bad way to indicate skill." and the majority here try to correct you because your statement is just your opinion, it's not a fact, completely subjective and by all means far from the truth. If you play enough ranked games you will ALWAYS swim around and or reach your true elo. A lot of players try to deny they are at their rightful elo, often blame it on the system, retards they play with in yolo queue and god knows what other excuses they use. If you are not able to carry yourself to gold, you just don't belong to gold and this goes for any border out there. The biggest point of disagreement is that people including yourself admit their are exceptions to the rule, but you state as well that borders don't mean anything . . . Exception mean less then 10% of the players (pulling out a random number out of my ass) and at the same time saying borderless=bronze=silver=gold=plat=diamond ?

[Big Skler]

I said gold club is worse than silver but didn't explain it, my issue is with the entitlement and perceived skill they have. I was just duoing and played with one of the worst yolo queuers in the universe and he was convinced all his problems were everyone else's fault, even though he was morde mid and pushed to their turret without warding for the duration of the lane phase. He was a gold border, and was far and away the worst player on our team, he was just incredibly bad, bad and a whiner. He could have been boosted, but I see a lot of that sort of attitude from gold borders when compared to silvers and such.

Everyone else on our team was pretty silent throughout the whole ordeal, but our gold kept complaining in spite of his own badness being the main reason for our eventual loss. His bad play isn't even what bothered me, just his terrible, terrible attitude. I tend to see it more from gold borders than others, hence my disdain for gold club.



I bet bronze club is the most fun.

[Valkasha]

You do realise that your arguments are completely subjective right? Stop spouting random stuff and stop pretending they're facts.
You just contradicted yourself again, first you state borders don't mean anything and now you state that gold borders are players with a bad attitude. This time you changed what you meant from players with less skill to players with bad attitudes.. Please.. Stop making yourself look stupid by changing what you supposedly meant 10x in a row.

[xIceSlasher]

There are bad people and whiners on ALL elos, also that one bad gold doesn't represent the whole gold elo playerbase, if you judge a group of people by one person, you're pretty -fill in blank-. The fact that that guy whined, could happen on bronze, silver, gold BECAUSE IT'S THE PERSON WHINING.

[Rueian]

Did someone say whine?

[tortillagirl]

i want cheese and wine please

[Big Skler]

xIceSlasher, on 29 January 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

There are bad people and whiners on ALL elos, also that one bad gold doesn't represent the whole gold elo playerbase,

My experience with gold borders is that, though my sample size isn't that large because I've only played about 50 ranked games this season. I'm not throwing it out as a fact, just an anecdote from my own experiences. I just haven't seen a silver/no border rage at the jungler for dying then sell all his items and build dunkmaster 15 minutes into the game yet. I'm sure I will eventually.

The border thing is stupid, though.

I've also been told I'm going to carry because of my border, or had people get mad if I don't carry when I'm the only gold border. I just wish everyone would shut up about borders, they never should have been put in because they are useless for everything but spawning expectations based on your PEAK in the past. I can't believe people actually gave a shit about them because your past Elo was your past Elo. Your current Elo is how you should be judged (well...not in placements I guess, but eventually). Saying "I was gold last season but am stuck in Elo hell now" can mean everyone got better, you got worse, or you had a bad streak of luck. Your border means "this is the highest point I got last season after they announced the rewards," it's not an accurate judge of current skill, nor does it pretend to be.


Also, if I get another afker in ranked I'm going to punt the next puppy I see. It's happened almost every time I've picked Caitlyn in ranked, I might just stop picking her.

[Valkasha]

Caitlyn is not that great a pick anyways, she has been popular for quite some time (right now like 33% picked I believe) while her win rate has consistently been below 50%. Her kit isn't that good and after wriggles nerf you can't even abuse her passive for dragon soloing. (yes, you can hit the dragon from a bush if you lure it out in the river)