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Support Elise


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#1 Oddrick

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:30 PM

Hey guys, I bought Elise when she was released but never really bothered trying to learn her because I felt she was a weak mid and a weak jungler. But very recently I've been playing her as a support bottom lane and she seems pretty strong.

Max W and spam it to constantly harass the enemy. It forces them to try and run away which you can time with your minions' HP bars to deny some CS. It does a pretty large chunk of damage, especially since I run MPen reds and flat AP blues. Then, if they get in range you can run up and deal 8% of their health in damage with your Q. All the while they're scared to fight because of your 1.5 second stun and the threat of you engaging in spider form with Exhaust.

My build so far has been Philo > Kage's > Haunting Guise > Sorcerer's Shoes > Abyssal Scepter > DFG or Morello's > Haven't gotten this fed yet. The fact is Elise doesn't scale so hard with items that she's dependent on them to do the job as a support. She can poke really freaking hard with a little bit of MPen and force her enemies to build some MR, which detracts from their build and gives your AD carry an edge. Also, spider form gives you a lot of free stats if you and your ally decide to hard engage.

I think the upcoming Season 3 changes are really going to help this build out. The new masteries are great and Twin Shadows (the one that summons two wraiths that chase down the enemy) is going to give her CC outside of her stun and allow her to start a hard engage on her own.

What do you guys think? Have you seen this or tried it yourself?
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#2 Flora

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

I don't see why I would pick an elise support when I can pick a lulu or even a zyra. And soon we will see Nami in every single game cuz she seems so op (: Elise has just a stun, not enough imo ok she can harass but others supp can too and in team fight I don't think she will be really useful
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#3 Slater Von Jäger

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:10 PM

Shes good for a double bruiser bot, but not as a support. She needs CS to much to be a support.

I've also seen her in bot lane trying to be a support very often, and she usually ends up being the cause of her team losing bot lane. She can deal with the squishier supports if they don't harass often, but more aggressive supports like zyra and taric are able to bully her back. Against kill lane supports like leona, alistar, or jarvan, she gets rolled hard. all of her damage comes from her using her Q and E in human form, causing her to burn through mana quickly. And with out items to improve her damage, which she needs CS to buy, her skills in spider form wont do much at all.

Again, as a double bruiser lane, shes ok.
As a support, she doesn't live up to other supports.
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#4 Oddrick

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:43 PM

all of her damage comes from her using her Q and E in human form


This is a sign (to me) that you've only seen bad Elise supports, because her W is her bread-and-butter poke skill. Once you learn how to manipulate the pathing of the spider, it's basically guaranteed damage. Not to mention it chases them away from the minions, denying CS.

The only time I ever use Q is when they run up to last hit something putting them in range of it while also having them be unable to counterattack. The important thing to do as Elise support is whittle down the enemy's HP with your poke while taking as little return damage as possible. It primes them for ganks, where you get to use your spider form Q to deal bonus damage for how much life they're down.

As for E, I almost always save it for defensive use. The only exception is when I'm almost certain we can get a kill with it, or if I'm laning with Caitlyn/Varus/Ashe and we decide to perma CC them until they're dead.
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#5 Oddrick

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:48 PM

I don't see why I would pick an elise support when I can pick a lulu or even a zyra. And soon we will see Nami in every single game cuz she seems so op (: Elise has just a stun, not enough imo ok she can harass but others supp can too and in team fight I don't think she will be really useful


The reason I pick her: Enemy picks someone like Vayne or Kog'Maw, who rely on getting CS to reach their late-game potential. I will dominate them in lane and they will be lucky to have half the CS of my carry.

As for team fights, yeah she can't really do much during them. That's why she's best suited with a poke comp where she can fling spider bombs at the enemy and whittle them down before actually fighting.
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#6 MrPancake

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:42 PM

Sounds like it's a 1v2 lane. It depends on the other support's level. Bad supports do not apply pressure on the lane, good supports do. Elise is definitely a good character to put pressure due to her being ranged and having that poke skill, but so do others. People like sona, who can probably poke for the same amount and have heals is a much better option. She does not have a stun until 6, but she will probably out sustain you guys as Elise does not have any healing abilities. Unless you go all out, the lane will not go favorably. Now if you're talking about someone like Janna who only has a shield and a Q and W to disengage, you have more pressure and zoning in the lane. But all your damage is negated due to Janna's shield, so that may seem fruitless unless you do an all out engage as said before.

The reason why I don't like Elise is because of her spider form. She needs to get in there and do damage, and if she doesn't, she loses half of her abilities. When you get in there and you're a support later in the game, you won't have that much damage and considering the items you're building and not as much tankiness as Soraka or Taric. Also if you do decide to use spider form, it's a risk due to you being melee. In the long long run Elise will definitely be a better choice as late game items roll in (50min games), but overall I'd prefer other supports.
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#7 Flora

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:37 PM

I'd prefer a support.


Corrected.
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#8 Deemez

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:15 PM

Play her top.
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#9 Slater Von Jäger

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:19 PM

This is a sign (to me) that you've only seen bad Elise supports, because her W is her bread-and-butter poke skill. Once you learn how to manipulate the pathing of the spider, it's basically guaranteed damage. Not to mention it chases them away from the minions, denying CS.



Her spiders are just like Maokai's saplings. You can try as hard as like, but its NEVER guaranteed to hit champions.

Her spiders don't chase them from minions either because in order for you to get into a position to cause them to do such, puts you way out of position yourself, and secondly, the half second to put minions in the path and avoid damage, then return to a proper position is to easy to do. Her spiders are honestly good for one thing, and that's pushing the minion wave and checking brush with.

her Q and E is where all her damage will come from because her Q is the only skill she has that can do some form of damage without items to back it up. Her E doesn't do damage itself per say, but it's damage comes from it giving the carry the time to dish out punishment free damage.
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#10 Rilaero

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:35 AM

The asian teams have actually run support Elise with good results. She's definitely a kill lane support but can do her job extremely well.

The main aspect is her amazing harass and execute from her Q. Due to it being % damage it does a hell of a lot of damage without items. She also has a long range stun and free bush check with her W.

From what I see, she can just whittle away enemies with Q harass then go spider-form, E onto the target, Q, transform and into a almost guaranteed stun and another Q. Mind you if you're going all in like that you better kill your target before you get killed, like most all-in supports. I would personally run Magic Pen marks, Armor Seals, MR Blues and GP10/Movement Speed Quints with 1/15/14 masteries.

Never knock it until you try it!
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#11 Oddrick

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:04 PM

Her spiders are just like Maokai's saplings. You can try as hard as like, but its NEVER guaranteed to hit champions.

Her spiders don't chase them from minions either because in order for you to get into a position to cause them to do such, puts you way out of position yourself, and secondly, the half second to put minions in the path and avoid damage, then return to a proper position is to easy to do. Her spiders are honestly good for one thing, and that's pushing the minion wave and checking brush with.

her Q and E is where all her damage will come from because her Q is the only skill she has that can do some form of damage without items to back it up. Her E doesn't do damage itself per say, but it's damage comes from it giving the carry the time to dish out punishment free damage.


Actually it is, if you know how to manipulate it. Spider bombs prioritize champions, so you throw it to the side of the minions when they come up to last hit and it will chase them down. The only possible counterplay is for them to run into the wave where it will still damage them, expose them to free damage from your carry (without having to utilize your stun which should almost always be saved to peel for your carry in case of a gank) and your Q spell, and cause the lane to push to tower where the enemy will lose CS and you can still pressure them with the range of your W.

Q is just not a good spell for harassing in the lane because it requires you to waddle up to them to use it. It deals mediocre damage for the amount of counterattack you'll receive. Meanwhile, I'm spamming bombs at you from well beyond your range of attack and whittling you down until eventually you can't get anywhere near the minions without the risk of being killed. Ward the brush? It's k, I always pack a Vision Ward.

Sorry, you just don't know what you're talking about here. W is the god spell once you learn to use it (which you can learn to use, unlike Saplings which don't have champion priority and don't have the same chasing power) and oh boy is it fun to use. Nothing funnier than watching people flee from that spider.

Edit: Just as a note, I'm not saying Q is a bad spell. It's simply inferior to W during the laning phase because there are less opportunities to use it in a way that doesn't result in you taking more damage. Q should still always be used when there's a chance to do so without receiving counterattack, such as when the carry goes to last-hit and is temporarily unable to retaliate.
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