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Lissandra


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#1 Pheqes

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:07 PM

I know there's a PBE thread about Her, but since She's live, I figured I'd make a new thread. Combine if you want.

Lissandra is a very close ranged caster. Infact, I think her Auto Attack has a further range than her Q. Her Q can shatter on targets and hit behind, though, so that helps. Her W and R radius is pretty similar, if not the same. Her E is very awkward at first because it starts sllooooooowly, but is easy to get used to.

She is probably one of the slowest champions out there, only having 370 movement speed after tier 2 boots.

She is very mana efficient. One of her suggested core items is Rod of Ages, but I find it not too useful as she doesn't really need mana items because she has such low mana costs and her passive helps negate a bit anyway. In a long team fight, she runs into issues, but nothing extreme like Anivia or even a Diana.

I've found rushing Rylai's instead of Rod of Ages to be pretty awesome as it stacks slows, which is a great team fight utility, gives her a good amount of health - making her able to dive in with her E and deal a fair amount of damage with the scepter's AP. I owned a Diana in mid lane and rushed Rylai's. I like it so far.

Abyssal would work well on her since she's up in your face.

I maxed Q first and W second. The W levels give longer hold durations and increases the damage for better farming. Q and W can clear almost an entire wave front and back. Lissandra's Q pushed waves quite a bit if you harass often, so be careful.

Before level 6, Diana couldn't do anything to me in mid lane. And by the time 6 hit, I was way ahead of her. In lane, I would Q her when she went to last hit, and auto attack her 2-3 times as she went away. Since Lissandra has very low mana issues, I could buy more health pots incase Diana got a Q on me. When i wanted to go in for the kill, I E'd in, trying to hit her with it, Q, W, Q, Ignite, Auto'd, Q if she was in range. If no minions are around, the Q range is VERY short.

I also took Lissandra top against a Renekton. He wasn't too aggressive on me, which I think if he were, I'd of had a harder time. I Q'd everytime he went to last hit, but he had so much health that it took a lot of poke to make him think twice. I wouldn't recommend her top lane, but I'm sure it could work with better top players than myself.

Her E is so helpful for setting up team initiations. Especially if you have Zhonya's. E in a team, R yourself or, preferably, a target enemy, W, Zhonya.s Q Q Q Q Q Q. Your team should follow you up and take advantage of the stacked slows and holds that Lissandra provides. Judge your team's willingness to go in.

That's all I got for now <3

Items I want to try/read about on her:

DFG
Liandry's
Morello's nomicon

EDIT: I can see long range farmers giving Lissandra trouble.
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#2 Slater Von Jäger

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:30 AM

Her Q has 725 initial range, before factoring the cone after impacting(it has about 200-250 extra range for the cone, possibly). Her ult's AoE is MUCH bigger then her W's.

You really shouldn't rush rylai's, or even build rylai's on her(she has more then enough CC already). Instead, Rush Zhonya's, as it will not only give her early diving potential(as that's what she likes to do), but it will allow her to better survive those dives. RoA is actaully superior to Rylai's on her because it gives much greater stats, giving her greater survivability in dives. Two items that she pretty much wants every game in mid lane, are going to be abyssal, and zhonya's. They give her defense to let her dive in and survive a bit longer, zhonya's adds to her survivability, Abyssal improves her damage through it's MR reducing aura. Through something like a linadry's or void staff in there(most likely void staff, I've found liandry's burn isn't as worth it on her, as her burst is already so damn insane), Grab a deathcap, you win.

basically:
Zhonya's
Abyssal
Voidstaff
Deathcap
Boots

who cares what your 6th item is, you most likely wont ever get to build one. But Don't worry about giving her an extra slow from rylai's, cause like i said, she already has ridiculous amounts of CC as is. Focus more on improving her damage, and her survivability, in which case, an early Zhonya's, abyssal, or RoA are going to have a greater effect(take the Zhonya's over the others first in most cases.)


What i like with her though, is her ability to jungle. Her clears at level 2-3 aren't that fast, but 4 onward, she destroys camps quickly. Her ganks are easy to set up thanks to her E having a range of 1050. You have to lead your target more with E because of how slow it is, but once you get in, he W locks them down, and you can then use Q to slow them further. after 6, your E in, ult them, stay close so you can W them the second ult drops, then Q. guaranteed kills.

I've tried several builds with her jungle, but I'm currently going rush spectral wraith, then zhonya's, grab abyssal, and then everything after is situaional. As far as boots go, you need to give up the sorc shoes for mobi boots, or boots of switfness. The boots aren't for chasing or escaping though, as her skills make that a breeze, they're travel time between camps, and lanes. late game, you can always sell them off and grab sorc boots.

Runes, I'm still working out my pages on those, current using:
AS marks
Armor seasl
5 flat Ap and 4 scaling AP glyphs
5 flat Ap quints

Masteries are 18-12-0(I can post a pic later, but this page works nicely)

skills
start Q, take W at 2 and 3, E at 4(or 3 if you want in earlier gank). Max W first, then max Q.

Taking Q first, but maxing second is solely because Q has a shorter CD then W, allowing you to clear camps faster until you hit level 4.
W first is for the increase in AoE damage(which clears camps nicely once it has a few points in it), and to increase the root duration, helping to secure kills, or to aid in your/your team's escape.

This was my first Live server game with her in jungle:
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My second game went much better, the next couple of games with her not so well, mainly do to 4v5 games, and a game in which our caitlyn managed to lose lane to an ADC thresh(how the fuck that happened, IDK). I plan on playing her more tonight in jungle, so if anyone wants to play with me while i do so, or try it themselves, let me know.
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#3 iamjstar

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:57 AM

I haven't even played her yet but honestly I think deathcap rush would be really good. The only thing that holds me back from rushing deathcap most games is that you have zero durability and will get popped. But with a free zhonya's on her ult I think it's easy to just factor out damage at least for the early/mid game.

I think Rylai's is a huge waste on her too. She's got enough utility and survivability as it is and should focus on burst.
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#4 Pheqes

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:00 AM

I retract my statement about her mana issues. Holy balls does she have them.

I built an Unholy grail on her for mana and cool downs. Q spam is great.

I'm still not sold on the RoA. I'll give it another try, though. I'm going to build a tear this game. Her Q spam is more than enough to charge it.

Agreed with Rushing Zhonya's. Think you're right about Rylais. Looking at it now, Only her Q and E can really make use of the slow, which her Q already has.

Going to try tear this time.

Also, With Movement Quints and Alcrity boots - Her MS was 400... Maybe 402, I don't remember. Not bad, still. Faster than varus with 2nd tier boots and Phantom dancer.

And with how much This lady dives into enemies, no way am I rushing Deathcap. I need something 'cause Her ult really needs to be put on the carry. It's extremely valuable on carry.
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#5 Zercker

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:35 AM

Having tons of fun with her, although an issue with diving is that it seems before I can even cast spells after I E, I tend to get insta bursted. But otherwise she's pretty good. I E'd int o baron pit and ulted myself, got two kills and stole baron. She has tons of potential to make plays and cant wait to see her in LCS
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#6 Pheqes

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:39 AM

I dont' like tear. Going to try chalice next.

That Rod of Ages is looking better and better now that I've played her more.
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#7 Slater Von Jäger

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:09 AM

I haven't even played her yet but honestly I think deathcap rush would be really good. The only thing that holds me back from rushing deathcap most games is that you have zero durability and will get popped. But with a free zhonya's on her ult I think it's easy to just factor out damage at least for the early/mid game.

I think Rylai's is a huge waste on her too. She's got enough utility and survivability as it is and should focus on burst.


I know several people, that would yell your ear out for saying deathcap rush. Deathcap rush is NEVER good, on anyone. On it's own, it's not worth the gold. it needs at least one or two other AP items to be finished first, before it's worth more then it's cost.


Pheqes bro, athenes is actually good on her, and does give her some MR to help survive early. If you're not going to rush an abyssal, i would def buy a chalice early, then finish Zhonya's, then build that athenes. mana issues fixed. lol.
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#8 Oddrick

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

Here's how I've been playing her:

9x MPen reds
9x MP5/lvl yellows
9x MR blues
3x MS quints

9/0/21 masteries

Start with Doran's Ring and a pot, push really fking hard until I have about 500g. Go back to base and buy boots + wards. Rush a Catalyst, then build Sorcerer's Shoes, finish Rod of Ages, then build Abyssal Scepter and Zhonya's Hourglass. If I need more damage I build Rabadon's or Void Staff depending on how the enemy team is itemizing. Last item is usually Frozen Heart, but I sometimes build Warmog's if magic damage is a bigger threat or I'm just exploding too fast.

- Liandry's Torment is really good on her and can often be taken in place of ROA if you aren't scared of mana issues or are just having a kickass early-game and want to push the advantage with your billions of MPen.
- Best CDR items seem to be Frozen Heart and Athene's Unholy Grail. I don't recommend DFG because Lissandra just doesn't deal enough damage to capitalize on it herself, but if you have a magic-damage heavy team it can be okay.
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#9 Hedshodd

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:32 AM

I had a game yesterday where I played Varus and had a Lissandra Support, and I was pleasently suprised. Due to her passive she has superb poke and brush control, and as long as you have an ADC who can profit from a snare (Caitlyn, Varus, Vayne come to mind) I think you're gonna have a really good time with this lane...Playing her as Support (and building her as a standard Caster Supp (though Zhonya's might still be worthwhile buy even in that role)) might be very dependent on the ADC pick, but I think those can be very devastating for the enemy team.
Other than that I'm definitely gonna buy her next week (kinda IP starved right now, so I'm waiting for the price drop to 6300 IP^^), just because I really like her overall theme and utility.

Most mid lanes imo need to strike a balance between burst (preferably AoE burst) and utility, and I think she strikes that balance VERY well...

Gonna try her top lane in premade 5s (normals for the beginning though^^)...I can see her potential there, since the length of the lane doesn't bother her all that much, and she can gain distance from divers easily and kite them. Huge early game lane bullies that have multiple gap closers AND innate tankiness (like Renekton) will give a hard time, but she actually has the potential to roflstomp pretty much any somewhat squishy top laner, especially assassins like Zed ("Oh, you ulted me? How about I ult you now, burst you, activate Zhonyas right after and than kill you?"), and still can go at least even with the tanky ones.
Another huge thing is due to her CC it is very easy to setup a gank for your own jungler.

/Edit: Just noticed that, since she wants to be in the very thick of things, going the standard AP bruiser route (throwing in a Deatchap as the 3rd or 4th item for good measure) will be very profitable with her^^
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