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Runes: Armor Penetration vs Flat AD


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#1 DerWille

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:27 PM

With the new changes to armor penetration and flat AD runes, we need another look at an optimized physical DPS rune book. This is still a work in progress, but it highlights some of the new patterns.

Armor Penetration Marks: 1.66 armor penetration (x9 = 15 armor pen)
Flat AD Marks: 0.95 AD (x9 = 8.55 AD)

Armor Penetration Quints: 3.33 armor penetration (x9 = 10 armor pen)
Flat AD Quints: 2.25 AD (x3 = 6.75 AD)

Marks: Armor Penetration vs Flat AD												
Character	Base Attack Damage	Armor Pen w/ 15 Armor	Armor Pen w/ 20 Armor	Armor Pen w/ 25 Armor	Armor Pen w/ 30 Armor	Flat AD Mark 
Ashe	        49.15	6.39	6.14	5.9	5.65	8.55
Corki	        51.2	6.66	6.4	6.14	5.89	8.55
Ezreal	        47.6	6.19	5.95	5.71	5.47	8.55
Gankplank	55	7.15	6.88	6.6	6.33	8.55
Garen	        60.66	7.89	7.58	7.28	6.98	8.55
Jax	        61	7.93	7.63	7.32	7.02	8.55
Master Yi	56.06	7.29	7.01	6.73	6.45	8.55
Miss Fortune	49.5	6.44	6.19	5.94	5.69	8.55
Nasus	        58.5	7.61	7.31	7.02	6.73	8.55
Nidalee	        50.5	6.57	6.31	6.06	5.81	8.55
Olaf	        60.5	7.87	7.56	7.26	6.96	8.55
Pantheon	53.4	6.94	6.68	6.41	6.14	8.55
Shaco	        56.5	7.35	7.06	6.78	6.5	8.55
Sivir	        52.86	6.87	6.61	6.34	6.08	8.55
Tristana	45	5.85	5.63	5.4	5.18	8.55
Tryndamere	60.4	7.85	7.55	7.25	6.95	8.55
Twisted Fate	49.71	6.46	6.21	5.97	5.72	8.55
Twitch	        52.36	6.81	6.55	6.28	6.02	8.55
Udyr	        54.2	7.05	6.78	6.5	6.23	8.55
Urgot	        57.1	7.42	7.14	6.85	6.57	8.55
Warwick	        61.4	7.98	7.68	7.37	7.06	8.55
Xin Zhao	55.3	7.19	6.91	6.64	6.36	8.55

Here we see that at level 1, flat AD marks are better than armor penetration marks on auto-attacks.

Quints: Armor Penetration vs Flat AD	
Character    Base Attack Damage    Armor Pen w/ 15 Armor    Armor Pen w/ 20 Armor    Armor Pen w/ 25 Armor    Armor Pen w/ 30 Armor    Flat AD Quint 
Ashe	        49.15	4.28	4.08	3.93	3.78	6.75
Corki	        51.2	4.45	4.25	4.1	3.94	6.75
Ezreal	        47.6	4.14	3.95	3.81	3.67	6.75
Gankplank	55	4.79	4.57	4.4	4.24	6.75
Garen	        60.66	5.28	5.03	4.85	4.67	6.75
Jax	        61	5.31	5.06	4.88	4.7	6.75
Master Yi	56.06	4.88	4.65	4.48	4.32	6.75
Miss Fortune	49.5	4.31	4.11	3.96	3.81	6.75
Nasus	        58.5	5.09	4.86	4.68	4.5	6.75
Nidalee	        50.5	4.39	4.19	4.04	3.89	6.75
Olaf	        60.5	5.26	5.02	4.84	4.66	6.75
Pantheon	53.4	4.65	4.43	4.27	4.11	6.75
Shaco	        56.5	4.92	4.69	4.52	4.35	6.75
Sivir	        52.86	4.6	4.39	4.23	4.07	6.75
Tristana	45	3.92	3.74	3.6	3.47	6.75
Tryndamere	60.4	5.25	5.01	4.83	4.65	6.75
Twisted Fate	49.71	4.32	4.13	3.98	3.83	6.75
Twitch	        52.36	4.56	4.35	4.19	4.03	6.75
Udyr	        54.2	4.72	4.5	4.34	4.17	6.75
Urgot	        57.1	4.97	4.74	4.57	4.4	6.75
Warwick	        61.4	5.34	5.1	4.91	4.73	6.75
Xin Zhao	55.3	4.81	4.59	4.42	4.26	6.75

Again, we see that in terms of raw damage, flat AD gives more bonus damage than armor penetration.

Marks and Quints: Armor Pen vs Flat AD
Character    Base Attack Damage    Armor Pen w/ 15 Armor    Armor Pen w/ 20 Armor    Armor Pen w/ 25 Armor    Armor Pen w/ 30 Armor    Flat AD Runes
Ashe	        49.15	6.39	8.16	9.83	9.44	15.3
Corki	        51.2	6.66	8.5	10.24	9.83	15.3
Ezreal	        47.6	6.19	7.9	9.52	9.14	15.3
Gankplank	55	7.15	9.13	11	10.56	15.3
Garen	        60.66	7.89	10.07	12.13	11.65	15.3
Jax	        61	7.93	10.13	12.2	11.71	15.3
Master Yi	56.06	7.29	9.31	11.21	10.76	15.3
Miss Fortune	49.5	6.44	8.22	9.9	9.5	15.3
Nasus	        58.5	7.61	9.71	11.7	11.23	15.3
Nidalee	        50.5	6.57	8.38	10.1	9.7	15.3
Olaf	        60.5	7.87	10.04	12.1	11.62	15.3
Pantheon	53.4	6.94	8.86	10.68	10.25	15.3
Shaco	        56.5	7.35	9.38	11.3	10.85	15.3
Sivir	        52.86	6.87	8.77	10.57	10.15	15.3
Tristana	45	5.85	7.47	9	8.64	15.3
Tryndamere	60.4	7.85	10.03	12.08	11.6	15.3
Twisted Fate	49.71	6.46	8.25	9.94	9.54	15.3
Twitch	        52.36	6.81	8.69	10.47	10.05	15.3
Udyr	        54.2	7.05	9	10.84	10.41	15.3
Urgot	        57.1	7.42	9.48	11.42	10.96	15.3
Warwick	        61.4	7.98	10.19	12.28	11.79	15.3
Xin Zhao	55.3	7.19	9.18	11.06	10.62	15.3

So even with up to 30 armor, an auto-attack with no items is still better with flat AD runes. But what happens if we use a full offensive spec (ignoring the armor penetration mastery so we can hold armor penetration constant.

Armor Pen w/Offense + Doren's Blade
Character    Base Attack Damage    Armor Pen w/ 15 Armor    Armor Pen w/ 20 Armor    Armor Pen w/ 25 Armor    Armor Pen w/ 30 Armor    Flat AD Runes
Ashe	        61.06	7.94	10.14	12.21	11.72	15.3
Corki	        63.21	8.22	10.49	12.64	12.14	15.3
Ezreal	        59.43	7.73	9.87	11.89	11.41	15.3
Gankplank	67.2	8.74	11.16	13.44	12.9	15.3
Garen	        73.14	9.51	12.14	14.63	14.04	15.3
Jax	        73.5	9.56	12.2	14.7	14.11	15.3
Master Yi	68.31	8.88	11.34	13.66	13.12	15.3
Miss Fortune	61.43	7.99	10.2	12.29	11.79	15.3
Nasus	        70.88	9.21	11.77	14.18	13.61	15.3
Nidalee	        62.48	8.12	10.37	12.5	12	15.3
Olaf	        72.98	9.49	12.11	14.6	14.01	15.3
Pantheon	65.52	8.52	10.88	13.1	12.58	15.3
Shaco	        68.78	8.94	11.42	13.76	13.2	15.3
Sivir	        64.95	8.44	10.78	12.99	12.47	15.3
Tristana	56.7	7.37	9.41	11.34	10.89	15.3
Tryndamere	72.87	9.47	12.1	14.57	13.99	15.3
Twisted Fate	61.65	8.01	10.23	12.33	11.84	15.3
Twitch	        64.43	8.38	10.7	12.89	12.37	15.3
Udyr	        66.36	8.63	11.02	13.27	12.74	15.3
Urgot	        69.41	9.02	11.52	13.88	13.33	15.3
Warwick	        73.92	9.61	12.27	14.78	14.19	15.3
Xin Zhao	67.52	8.78	11.21	13.5	12.96	15.3


With a greater starting damage, armor penetration has more base damage to enhance and therefore we get an increase in the "bonus" damage that armor penetration is giving us. Also notice that these runes reach their peak at 25 armor. This is the full amount these runes can penetrate and afterward armor penetration will give us less and less value as armor increases but our damage remains the same.

However there is more to this than simply comparing the bonus damage each rune gives and then calling it good. As our damage increases armor has a greater and greater effect on it. Therefore, we need to compare our total damage against the opponent's armor to see what gives a net increase in the amount of damage done at level 1.

Total Damage vs Armor
Character    AD /w Doren, Off	AD + Runes	AD + Runes vs 15 Armor	AD + Runes vs 20 Armor	AD + Runes vs 25 Armor	AD + Runes vs 30 Armor	AD /w 25 Armor Pen
Ashe	        61.06	76.36	66.43	63.68	61.09	58.8	58.74
Corki	        63.21	78.51	68.3	65.48	62.81	60.45	60.81
Ezreal	        59.43	74.73	65.02	62.32	59.78	57.54	57.17
Gankplank	67.2	82.5	71.78	68.81	66	63.53	64.65
Garen	        73.14	88.44	76.94	73.76	70.75	68.1	70.36
Jax	        73.5	88.8	77.26	74.06	71.04	68.38	70.71
Master Yi	68.31	83.61	72.74	69.73	66.89	64.38	65.71
Miss Fortune	61.43	76.73	66.76	63.99	61.38	59.08	59.1
Nasus	        70.88	86.18	74.98	71.87	68.94	66.36	68.19
Nidalee	        62.48	77.78	67.67	64.87	62.22	59.89	60.11
Olaf	        72.98	88.28	76.8	73.63	70.62	67.98	70.21
Pantheon	65.52	80.82	70.31	67.4	64.66	62.23	63.03
Shaco	        68.78	84.08	73.15	70.12	67.26	64.74	66.17
Sivir	        64.95	80.25	69.82	66.93	64.2	61.79	62.48
Tristana	56.7	72	62.64	60.05	57.6	55.44	54.55
Tryndamere	72.87	88.17	76.71	73.53	70.54	67.89	70.1
Twisted Fate	64.65	79.95	69.56	66.68	63.96	61.56	62.19
Twitch	        64.43	79.73	69.37	66.49	63.78	61.39	61.98
Udyr	        66.36	81.66	71.04	68.1	65.33	62.88	63.84
Urgot	        69.41	84.71	73.7	70.65	67.77	65.23	66.77
Warwick	        73.92	89.22	77.62	74.41	71.38	68.7	71.11
Xin Zhao	67.52	82.82	72.05	69.07	66.26	63.77	64.95

And now, it's proven. At level 1 an auto-attack with straight flat AD runes is superior to armor penetration. They seem to roughly equal each other at 30 armor. So from all this we can make the following rules:

Flat AD Runes vs Armor Penetration
  • With Doren's and Offensive Masteries, At 30 armor Flat AD and Armor Penetration are roughly equal.
  • Flat AD enhances auto-attacks more than armor penetration.
  • Armor Penetration enhances physical damaging spells more than flat AD.
  • Armor Penetration is best used with 21/x/y mastery set ups.
  • Flat AD is best used with all other mastery set ups.

If you find any errors in the calculations or want me to explore other areas just ask.
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#2 Messiah

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:39 PM

you have to factor in the fact that the bonus dmg you get from ad runes gets affected by armor too so it's not a raw dmg increase
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#3 DerWille

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:43 PM

That's the last chart. Armor reduction brings them down alot and quickly, but they still maintain a small lead until about 25 or 30 armor depending on the character.

Or do you want me to do another with just base damage + runes vs different armor values?
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#4 Rudeboymike

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 12:34 AM

I did a writeup on comparing the Actual Damage across different Target Armor values at set base Attack Damage intervals. I didn't want to hijack your thread, so I created a new one.
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